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	<title>Comments on: A Kingdom (Re)Definition of Business</title>
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	<link>http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/a-kingdom-redefinition-of-business/</link>
	<description>Marketplace Ministry - Missional Business - Kingdom Enterprise</description>
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		<title>By: soulster</title>
		<link>http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/a-kingdom-redefinition-of-business/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>soulster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/?p=15#comment-17</guid>
		<description>I looked at the REACHVISION.org site.  Looks like a great strategy to bring healthcare to millions.  I&#039;d be curious to hear the story of how this got started and what lead to this innovative way of extending care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked at the REACHVISION.org site.  Looks like a great strategy to bring healthcare to millions.  I&#8217;d be curious to hear the story of how this got started and what lead to this innovative way of extending care.</p>
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		<title>By: soulster</title>
		<link>http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/a-kingdom-redefinition-of-business/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>soulster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/?p=15#comment-16</guid>
		<description>Good points about Walmart, Tony.  You&#039;re right about the benefits many people have received from Walmart.  It&#039;s done a lot of good.  But it&#039;s also been doing some bad things like spying on people (http://businessethics.suite101.com/article.cfm/bruce_gabbard_timeline), cutting benefits (see memo at  http://wakeupwalmart.com/news/benefits-cut.pdf), and firing aging workers to save costs (2006 news stories).  Some have also pointed out sweat-heart government deals, tax payer costs, and harmful importation practices with Asia.  This has lead to a reputation crisis for the company, thus my reference to &quot;think Walmart&quot;.

But this is a great illustration of the moral ambiguity of current Corporate America and our response.  It&#039;s hard to find a company who doesn&#039;t do some things wrong these days and some things right.  Most of this is caused not by malicious intentions of single individuals, but rather by just plain human brokenness (like the consumerist cultural complex) -- the same kind that leads families to do some good things and some bad things.  I think we must have a redemptive rather than judgmental attitude of todays corps.  While we can&#039;t blind ourselves the universal brokenness, we move with Christ to change everything for the better.  

Should believers do business with Walmart?  Of course.  How else can they be in a position to incarnate Christ there and bring positive change?  Should we buy and sell and take corps like Walmart as our clients?  Yes, most of the time (unless doing so contributes to obvious abuse).  Especially when we many help to protect and support people and change corps for the better.

Corps are aggregates of people in one way or another, so God looks at them like his Bride in the books of the Prophets.  He wants us to join him in taking back his bride with her good and bad, infidelity, quirks, imperfections, and outright messiness.  He can handle cleaning her up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points about Walmart, Tony.  You&#8217;re right about the benefits many people have received from Walmart.  It&#8217;s done a lot of good.  But it&#8217;s also been doing some bad things like spying on people (<a href="http://businessethics.suite101.com/article.cfm/bruce_gabbard_timeline)" rel="nofollow">http://businessethics.suite101.com/article.cfm/bruce_gabbard_timeline)</a>, cutting benefits (see memo at  <a href="http://wakeupwalmart.com/news/benefits-cut.pdf)" rel="nofollow">http://wakeupwalmart.com/news/benefits-cut.pdf)</a>, and firing aging workers to save costs (2006 news stories).  Some have also pointed out sweat-heart government deals, tax payer costs, and harmful importation practices with Asia.  This has lead to a reputation crisis for the company, thus my reference to &#8220;think Walmart&#8221;.</p>
<p>But this is a great illustration of the moral ambiguity of current Corporate America and our response.  It&#8217;s hard to find a company who doesn&#8217;t do some things wrong these days and some things right.  Most of this is caused not by malicious intentions of single individuals, but rather by just plain human brokenness (like the consumerist cultural complex) &#8212; the same kind that leads families to do some good things and some bad things.  I think we must have a redemptive rather than judgmental attitude of todays corps.  While we can&#8217;t blind ourselves the universal brokenness, we move with Christ to change everything for the better.  </p>
<p>Should believers do business with Walmart?  Of course.  How else can they be in a position to incarnate Christ there and bring positive change?  Should we buy and sell and take corps like Walmart as our clients?  Yes, most of the time (unless doing so contributes to obvious abuse).  Especially when we many help to protect and support people and change corps for the better.</p>
<p>Corps are aggregates of people in one way or another, so God looks at them like his Bride in the books of the Prophets.  He wants us to join him in taking back his bride with her good and bad, infidelity, quirks, imperfections, and outright messiness.  He can handle cleaning her up.</p>
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		<title>By: TonyDale</title>
		<link>http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/a-kingdom-redefinition-of-business/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>TonyDale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/?p=15#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Two quick comments.  Soulster comments in his blog, &quot;Otherwise, when the customers are only satisfied with a lower price, the business will be required to purposefully abuse it’s work force (think WalMart). Etc.&quot;  I question if Walmart is diliberately abusing its workforce.  They are providing tens of thousands of jobs for people, including many elderly folk who may have difficulty finding other jobs in the current economy.  They also help family all over the country live on a reasonable budget by their low prices.  Alongside this this are poviding work for tens of thousands of suppliers employees.  Is this really abuse?  It is part of the fuel that has provided a leg up for millions around the world as the reality of market forces and globalization has seen the two thirds world dramatically improve over the past 40 years.  This raises so equally challenging questions though for the remaining bottom billion in the countries (mainly in Africa) who have missed out on world-wide economic growth during this time.  How do we genuinely help those in the bottom billion now.  This is a challenging area that it would be a blessing to explore with others who are interested at the conference.  One thing I personally am involved in can be seen at www.reachvision.org.  Tell me what you think!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two quick comments.  Soulster comments in his blog, &#8220;Otherwise, when the customers are only satisfied with a lower price, the business will be required to purposefully abuse it’s work force (think WalMart). Etc.&#8221;  I question if Walmart is diliberately abusing its workforce.  They are providing tens of thousands of jobs for people, including many elderly folk who may have difficulty finding other jobs in the current economy.  They also help family all over the country live on a reasonable budget by their low prices.  Alongside this this are poviding work for tens of thousands of suppliers employees.  Is this really abuse?  It is part of the fuel that has provided a leg up for millions around the world as the reality of market forces and globalization has seen the two thirds world dramatically improve over the past 40 years.  This raises so equally challenging questions though for the remaining bottom billion in the countries (mainly in Africa) who have missed out on world-wide economic growth during this time.  How do we genuinely help those in the bottom billion now.  This is a challenging area that it would be a blessing to explore with others who are interested at the conference.  One thing I personally am involved in can be seen at <a href="http://www.reachvision.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.reachvision.org</a>.  Tell me what you think!</p>
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		<title>By: soulster</title>
		<link>http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/a-kingdom-redefinition-of-business/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>soulster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/?p=15#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Great story Jim!  I think many people identify with your story, though I have a hunch you&#039;re a &quot;fore-runner&quot; in this kind of thing as far as the house church movement goes.

You said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Is there a job position in God’s kingdom for passionate, people that they didn’t tell us about? Is there a way to REALLY pursue the Kingdom at work, thru work, in a small business, or a larger corporate environment? Not the ‘weenie kingdom’, where all we do is post a “fish” on our office door…but really making an impact? If this is true, you must tell me! (I think this is the cry of many a commoner like me.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

By faith and in my limited experience, I know this is true.  But I think we have yet to see the full reality of this.  The reality is most church life avoids speaking directly to business life and most Christians in the business world struggle greatly to live in Kingdom ways.  But I think the lessons we&#039;ve learned in simple church will help us fashion something new that brings the Kingdom in new ways.

I&#039;ve been experimenting with different things like training young Jesus-followers in my business (discipleship + business) and using parable and metaphor to share the Gospel incarnationally across the meeting table with clients.  While I still feel THE WALL where the Kingdom of Mammon resists the Kingdom of God, the subversive, sneaky, saturating, ways of Jesus I&#039;ve learned in simple church seem to be working.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great story Jim!  I think many people identify with your story, though I have a hunch you&#8217;re a &#8220;fore-runner&#8221; in this kind of thing as far as the house church movement goes.</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Is there a job position in God’s kingdom for passionate, people that they didn’t tell us about? Is there a way to REALLY pursue the Kingdom at work, thru work, in a small business, or a larger corporate environment? Not the ‘weenie kingdom’, where all we do is post a “fish” on our office door…but really making an impact? If this is true, you must tell me! (I think this is the cry of many a commoner like me.)</p></blockquote>
<p>By faith and in my limited experience, I know this is true.  But I think we have yet to see the full reality of this.  The reality is most church life avoids speaking directly to business life and most Christians in the business world struggle greatly to live in Kingdom ways.  But I think the lessons we&#8217;ve learned in simple church will help us fashion something new that brings the Kingdom in new ways.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been experimenting with different things like training young Jesus-followers in my business (discipleship + business) and using parable and metaphor to share the Gospel incarnationally across the meeting table with clients.  While I still feel THE WALL where the Kingdom of Mammon resists the Kingdom of God, the subversive, sneaky, saturating, ways of Jesus I&#8217;ve learned in simple church seem to be working.</p>
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		<title>By: jimmybob</title>
		<link>http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/a-kingdom-redefinition-of-business/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>jimmybob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 00:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://h2hmarketplace.wordpress.com/?p=15#comment-3</guid>
		<description>I have a passion beyond words to see new believers born into the kingdom.  And an almost equal passion for seeing new churches planted, here in the US and in every corner of the world.  As a young chap, I was sad, seeing all my comrades sailing off into the sunset to be ‘full-time’ pastors and missionaries.  But I knew I had an inescapable call to engineering and business.  All I could do is to say to myself, “One day, I’ll show them, God will use me too!”  

Now our business is doing very well.  I really have no good plan for what to do with all the money. (I also have an unapologetic passion for making money, and feel that it is the fulfillment of God’s purpose for me.) I do know that I am helping and encouraging church planters, right and left.  I’m involved with organic church projects coming out my ears.  And I’m praying hard about where to give, and hoping that thru all the chaos, I make a difference.

It all started 20 years ago when God led me to give beyond my means by faith, (That’s a whole ‘nother story.) which led to series of miraculous happenings.  Part of this process was a sort of prophetic, faith-filled dreaming….fueled by stories of Abraham and how God blessed him.  It was almost like what an entrepreneur must experience, but the Christian version.  You know, this whole faith thing seems very ‘Jewish’ to me….

Is there a job position in God’s kingdom for passionate, people that they didn’t tell us about?  Is there a way to REALLY pursue the Kingdom at work, thru work, in a small business, or a larger corporate environment?  Not the ‘weenie kingdom’, where all we do is post a “fish” on our office door…but really making an impact?   If this is true, you must tell me!  (I think this is the cry of many a commoner like me.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a passion beyond words to see new believers born into the kingdom.  And an almost equal passion for seeing new churches planted, here in the US and in every corner of the world.  As a young chap, I was sad, seeing all my comrades sailing off into the sunset to be ‘full-time’ pastors and missionaries.  But I knew I had an inescapable call to engineering and business.  All I could do is to say to myself, “One day, I’ll show them, God will use me too!”  </p>
<p>Now our business is doing very well.  I really have no good plan for what to do with all the money. (I also have an unapologetic passion for making money, and feel that it is the fulfillment of God’s purpose for me.) I do know that I am helping and encouraging church planters, right and left.  I’m involved with organic church projects coming out my ears.  And I’m praying hard about where to give, and hoping that thru all the chaos, I make a difference.</p>
<p>It all started 20 years ago when God led me to give beyond my means by faith, (That’s a whole ‘nother story.) which led to series of miraculous happenings.  Part of this process was a sort of prophetic, faith-filled dreaming….fueled by stories of Abraham and how God blessed him.  It was almost like what an entrepreneur must experience, but the Christian version.  You know, this whole faith thing seems very ‘Jewish’ to me….</p>
<p>Is there a job position in God’s kingdom for passionate, people that they didn’t tell us about?  Is there a way to REALLY pursue the Kingdom at work, thru work, in a small business, or a larger corporate environment?  Not the ‘weenie kingdom’, where all we do is post a “fish” on our office door…but really making an impact?   If this is true, you must tell me!  (I think this is the cry of many a commoner like me.)</p>
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